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Talk:Michael Moore/Archive 3


Talk:Michael Moore/Archive 3

Contact your healthcare professionals (e.g. i had three long courses of physiotherapy and two cortosone injections all with small improvement. Davison is a tiny little city with a population of just over 5,000. From the second week onwards, my colleagues and myself became very busy. While conventional medicine today has advanced tremendously in the treatment of acute illness, it has not been so successful when it comes to chronic illness and chronic pain. If people ask me where I’m from, unless they are from Glasgow and have a chance of being familiar with Burnside, I’m most likely to say Glasgow. In 2014 he began to focus on sports injuries and illness resulting from overtraining, following the precepts of the Integrated Systemic Dry Needling approach.

As a therapy, it is recognised by the World Health Organisation in the treatment of acute and chronic, internal and external disorders. Anna Campbell is a dedicated holistic therapist in Dublin offering a unique approach to health. Moore is from Davison, which is a suburb of Flint. Flint is a large well-known city (fourth largest in Michigan according to our own page on Flint), while Davison is a tiny city that is pretty much unknown (aside from census data, the only information on our page on Davison is that Moore was born there and who the city is named after). No one has pointed to anything that proves that Moore isn’t just taking the obvious route of naming Flint because people will known where the hell that is. Like I said earlier, if I tell people I’m from Burnside then I have to explain where Burnside is (even about half the people in Glasgogw don’t know where Burnside is), if I just tell them I’m from Glasgow they pretty much all know (even people in foreign countries like the US). First of all have you actually read the USA Today and Sunday Morning Herald articles?

In TCM this can deplete the Kidney Qi and lead to headaches. Not even in the slightest. All it does is say he is from Davison, which no-one is disputing and is already covered elsewhere on this page. “This may seem like a bizarre e-mail but I want to finally put to sleep a ridiculous and trivial issue that your opponents are using to defame you and which is ruining the Wikipedia article on you due to childish arguments amongst otherwise intelligent people. It is recognised by the W.H.O. In recent years until now, my practice has been located in the Quayside Shopping Centre in Sligo town. What I’m asking is that you put a small article on your website detailing the fact that you lived in a suburb of Flint and not the actual city (Include the fact that went to high school in flint, published the flint voice and that many of your close family members worked at auto plants in Flint).

Your opponents on the site claim that as soon as you say you’re from Davidson and that you only claimed to be from Flint because most people wouldn’t know where the hell Davidson is they will remove the article. If they don’t remove the article then it will be clear who the real hypocrites are. Some peoples’ intellectual dishonesty truly knows no bounds. People clearly dispute that Moore is from Flint, so the removal was completely against consensus. The argument is a red herring of the like that Moore would use himself, in that since it could be twisted to be partially true, it obviously is completely true. Moore is not from Flint. “By running the probe over my hand it correctly diagnosed the disc problem I have and a pain I’d had in my shoulder for a month.

I am from Arlington, which is a suburb of Dallas, but that does not mean I am from Dallas, and I would be lying if I said I was. Michael Moore was born in St. Joseph’s hospital in Flint, Michigan. The dogs had lost power in both fore and hind legs but we managed to get them back on their feet. It is not at all unusual or disengeuous for one who lives in a suburb to state he is from the larger community when describing himself to outsiders. I for one, grew up in Novi, Michigan. Do you know where that is?

I suggest we rename this article to Irish round tower and have round tower be a disambiguation page which can point to at least 4 pages: Irish round tower, Broch, Atlantic Roundhouse, Wheelhouses. Does that make me a liar? Surely those opposed to Michael Moore’s political viewpoint can find something better to argue about than where he is from. With this type of tinnitus, the patient and the doctor can hear the noise of the head. W H Allen, minister from 1871-5, addressed the people of Burnley people on the questions of wages and industrial relations. A section of “people who make fun of Michael Moore and how they did it” is redundant, silly, and very un-encyclopaedic. On the other side of the scale, all of Moore’s detractors are not necessarily conservative.

The sprinking of “conservative critics” throughout the document leads the reader to believe that all criticisms levelled at Moore are by definition partisan, when they really aren’t. In all honesty, which? I am trying to be calm here, though I know my temper has gotten the better of me somewhat in the face of what I perceive as intellectual dishonesty and threats to abuse power. But truthfully, I’m wondering, because we’ve seen several arguments from the pro-Moore “Take the whole thing out!” people on this page. Davison is a suburb of Flint, therefore, Moore can claim to be from Flint truthfully. Moore may have been born in a hospital in Flint, and thus it is truthful for him to say he is from there. The second argument seems to be used when the first one is argued against.

Neither make much sense, to my mind. Saying that a suburb is the same thing as the city which it is connected to seems almost ridiculous, as if saying that a child is not at all a separate entity from its parents and the two were interchangable. For example, I’m from Arlington, Texas, a suburb of Dallas. Now, probably not that many people have heard of Arlington, but would it be right for me to say I’m from Dallas? After all, Dallas carries with it a certain image in peoples’ minds and might change the way they looked at me, whereas they might otherwise say “Arlington? Where’s that?” So if I were to claim to be from the “big city” when I’m not, I would be influencing others’ perceptions with a falsehood… I’m not FROM Dallas, I’m just from NEAR Dallas.

Talk:Michael Moore/Archive 3
The other argument just borders on the ridiculous, claiming that Moore can truthfully claim to be from Flint just because he might (and no evidence has been given to support this) have been born in a hospital there. If someone was born in a hospital in Canada where their parents were on vacation and then immediately went back with them to live the rest of their lives in Oklahoma, would they then be a Canadian? Out of curiosity, when did a criticism have to be published to be notable? As well, published criticisms were noted in the sections (which Gamaliel removed completely as well as the debated section, to get his preferred version in under the page protection I’d already announced). But also, does criticism have to now be published in a magazine or newspaper before it’s considered notable? Moore’s apparent tendency to misrepresent himself has been noted in blog posts by people on both sides of the aisle, therefore it’s a criticism. Whether it’s considered valid or not is not the issue, but rather that it is a widely spread point of contention.

You know what is funny. I’m the one opposing this paragraph and also it seems the only one capable of backing up the Flint/Davison “controversy” with sources. Ain’t that grand. As far as I know, David Hardy (who runs mooreexposed.com) and Jason Clark (who runs moorelies.com) first brought up the issue in their book “Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man” on page 18: “In fact, Moore was born and raised in Davison, Michigan, and attended Davison High School. While Davison is near Flint, proximity doesn’t translate to similarity between the two towns. Davison is the wealthy, white ‘bedroom town’ of the area, largely inhabited by management, not labor, Davison’s median household income is one and a half times that of Flint’s, and its median house value is just over twice that of Flint’s, Davison’s 2000 unemployment rate was a minus 4.6 percent, a third that of Flint’s, and it’s poverty rate was half the national average. Davison is also lily-white to a staggering degree: African-Americans make up only one-half of one percent of its population.” If you check the sources listed at the back of their book you’ll see the “fact” that he was born in Davison is pulled from the Michael Moore FAQ.

Which funnily enough says Moore was born in Flint in section 1.1 and born in Davison in 1.6. Big points for consistency to them. The issue was also covered on MooreWatch.com. But they are just repeating the stuff in Hardy and Clark’s book, with no research to back up what they are saying. The issue was also covered in the Australian Sunday Morning Herald (as linked above). Again though they are just repeating “facts” from the book. And that seems to be about it.

Everyone else who mentions this issue seems to get it from one of these three sources. From: “The Official Farenheit 9/11 reader”, ISBN 0-7432-7292-7pp 91: (Referring to recruiting soldiers) “(Places like)… my Hometown of Flint, Michigan”. It would be nice to clean up the article, which has lots of good info and evidence of hard work, and bring it up to WP standards. The later “Mall” scene stated that the recruiters avoided the wealthier Genessee Valley Mall (SW of Flint, characterized by Moore as “in the suburbs”, so he does think Flint has suburbs), and instead went to “the other mall” (identified from the movie as Courtland Center, a mall in between Davison and Downtown flint)… sure, it’s a lot of WP:NOR, but it was more detail than I looked up before. all but totally not sounding a good deal of what is wrong with the power metal today, even though some of the latest practices of better days to save.

They instead identify his birth place and hometown as Davison, Michigan. They go on to point out that Davison is “the wealthy, white bedroom town of the area, largely inhabited by management, not labour”, listing statistics about finances of the Davison’s occupants compared to Flint and also pointing out that almost all occupants of Davison are white. Critics of the book point to the fact that the book is badly sourced (the FAQ that Hardy and Clarke used as the source of Moore’s birthplace conflicts with itself, saying Moore was born in Flint then saying he was born in Davison a few paragraphs later), that little-known Davison is considered a suburb of Flint (which has been made famous by Moore’s work) so residents of Davison might commonly identify themselves as being from Flint and that Moore has never denied growing up in Davison (in fact, Hardy and Clarke use Moore’s own statements about growing up in Davison as their source for the fact he grew up in Davison). If he never denied his was raised in Davison, there is no deception and thus no controversy. Since he says he was born in Flint and raised in Davison and he was in fact born in Flint and raised in Davison. Just put that in his biography and leave it at that. If you want to mention that he is a big fat liar because he plays off being from Flint when he really grew up 2 minutes from Flint to satisfy the 5 people in the world who actually think that, I have a compromise.

We let them edit that in but then we also have to edit George W. Bush’s Bio to call him a big fat liar because he plays off being from West Texas when he was in fact born in New Haven, Conn. Read it this way: “Moore also attended the 2004 Republican National Convention, where he was criticized in a speech by Senator John McCain as “a disingenuous film maker.” The other part is just added information. I find it silly that the links to the rebuttals of the rebuttals are featured in the same breath. They belong in the articles on the authors. It looks like the supporters of Moore got desperate. 2.

I think the word “alleged” should remain when talking about links between Bush and the bin Laden family, in the interest of not tilting the article too much in one direction. 3. By the same token, the section on Moore’s entry in Goldberg’s book (which I haven’t read, BTW), could say something along the lines of “Moore was listed as #1 without further justification for his position or inclusion on the list”. On this page and a description on IMDB it describes Sicko as being a documentary on the healthcare industry from the viewpoint of the mental healthcare system. However it does not mention mental healthcare on the Sicko page. On Michael Moore’s website so far I’ve found no traces of the words ‘mental healthcare’. The descriptions of the subject of this film are very vague and general so far.

Most people on various messageboards and around the internet seem to assume this film is about healthcare in general, judging from the discussions brought up by mentioning the film (surgery, medicine, doctors, hospitals, etc.). No mentions of psychiatry or the DSM in these discussions, however there are some places on the internet that mention mental healthcare being in Moore’s film, mostly antipsychiatry websites. Possibly also MooreWatch. I started a topic on IMDB about the subject matter of the film since the grand majority of the other topics were debates about the state of the healthcare industry and having to pay too much or not getting proper treatment, etc. etc.. From the replies I’ve received so far nobody seems to know for sure the exact subject of this film but most assume that if it says it’ll be inspecting mental healthcare, that’s what the film will probably be about. …..Anyway after that ramble, my point is there is apparent confusion about the subject of Moore’s upcoming film Sicko.

I would appreciate it if somebody looked into this and figured out what EXACTLY this film is about. Healthcare in general or mental healthcare to be specific? Both? 2 years ago, there would had been a long incendiary fight, with Moore haters and neo-cons stating that it was not POV. Now that Moore hasnt made a movie in some time and that the Bush administration is showing the lowest poll ratings in its administration, no one comes, no one cares. -—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.215.173.90 (talk • contribs) . Nonsense, i have read really well made articles about controversial figures, the most prominent of them all was the spanish page of the Hugo Chavez article.

It used facts instead of weasel words or cold reading. The english version of the Hugo Chavez although is a mess though, but once one has seen what a good article sorta looks like, it cant be that hard to mimic it into another good article. I don’t feel strongly one way or the other about it, but we’ve attmepted to do our best to balance the criticisms of Moore with a possible explanation or note about it, and I’m pretty sure that’s why the part you’re objecting to is there. –badlydrawnjeff talk 16:07, 29 June 2006 (UTC) Actually the whole bradbury thing is sort of trivial, as it doesnt change whatsoever the content of the movie. If you say that we should focus this page more into attacking Moore, then i dont know, i think you have a severe bias towards him, and you will not be taken seriously.